(MARRS-RX7) Miata Gears in Rx7 Trans?

chewy srx769 at gmail.com
Sun Dec 1 18:33:28 CET 2019


Hows it going . Chewy here , hope to return next year and have some more
fun with all of you .

On Saturday, August 3, 2019, Michael Root via Spec7 <spec7 at lists.specrx7.com>
wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/Washington-DC-Spec-RX7-Racing-102156164471645/
>
> I plan to add some video content, maybe tomorrow. Please consider joining,
> and please *really* consider putting some SRX7 racing pics and videos up.
> Thanks!
>
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> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 6:48 PM Michael Root <root.michael.j at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, first and foremost I can have a Facebook page up by the end of the
> > weekend. Alex, or anyone else, if you would like to help with the social
> > media presence, let me know. I can add you as an admin.
> >
> > Second, this clearly articulates to me why we've been historically slow
> to
> > adopt any changes. I have seen what it's done to other classes (made them
> > more expensive, primarily) and it just reinforces that we need to be very
> > thoughtful before making a change, and how we make that change (e.g., if
> we
> > switch to miata gears, that becomes the new standard, not an option). I'm
> > not closing any conversation, but all this needs to be considered
> > carefully, which as the class rep I promise to continue to do. In the
> > meantime, I can work on promoting the class, selling cars to interested
> > folks (yes, I find people and send them to people with cars to sell) and
> > generally continue to try and do what's best to keep the class active.
> I'm
> > not looking for 55 RX7s on the track, but 4 years ago we had over 10 a
> race
> > or two, and that would be good to see again.
> >
> >
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> >
> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 11:11 AM John Uftring <johnuftring at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Folks,
> >>
> >> It's been far too many years since I turned a wheel with you guys, but
> >> here are my $0.02 worth:
> >>
> >> If the gearing change is made optional, there will be people who swap
> >> transmissions for events once they have figured out which "gear set"
> >> provides an advantage. It's the nature of racing. If you can legally
> gain
> >> an advantage by doing something different, you do it. I have several
> >> transmissions and each one with varying degrees of crunchyness in the
> 2-3-4
> >> range.
> >>
> >> The classes that other regions call Spec7 allow differing mods,
> depending
> >> on the region, but if I recall, they have the same problem we have, and
> >> that's low turn-out. The reasons are essentially the same as ours.
> There is
> >> a core group of drivers that come to each race, but the class isn't
> >> growing, or shrinking, much from year to year.
> >>
> >> In the southeast (I'm an NCR member) IT7 is 79-85 12A RX7s prepped to
> ITA
> >> specs. IT7 was broken out because the 12A RX7s just could not compete
> >> against the boinger cars in ITA on the lions share of tracks in the
> >> Southeast Division. IT7 suffers from the same problems that Spec7 is
> >> suffering from, but the number of IT7 cars at a SEDiv event is maybe
> just a
> >> little bit higher than Spec7 turnout at a WDCR event. That class is also
> >> not growing, either.
> >> Here's something to help with the boinger reference:
> >> https://youtu.be/oHzeGEHWMjo
> >>
> >> Mods to the class are always a slippery slope with varying degrees of
> >> unintended consequences. Spec7 was a great entry-level class and drew a
> lot
> >> of cars and drivers to it 'back in the day" because it was cheap and
> mods
> >> were very restricted. In a Miata, I believe that WDCR's SSM is kind of
> like
> >> Spec7 in that respect. I remember coming up to Summit when Spec7 had
> it's
> >> own run-group and was fielding 55-car grids. It's still a great
> entry-level
> >> class, but Spec Miata has become, and eclipsed, what Spec7 was. Yes, it
> >> takes a large wheelbarrow of cash and a boatload of talent to run with
> the
> >> big dogs in SM, but for a moderate sized bucket of cash as a reasonable
> >> level of skill you can have some really good racing in the mid-pack
> where
> >> you learn how to wring the neck of the Miata, and there is always a
> healthy
> >> number of Spec Miatas at every race.
> >>
> >> Drive the crap out of what you've got, and have fun doing it.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> - John Uftring
> >>   #94 Spec7 (gathering dust in the lower garage 🙁 )
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 8:43 AM Michael Root via Spec7 <
> >> spec7 at lists.specrx7.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If you're going fast you can get into 4th before turn 3, most use it
> in 4
> >>> and under the bridge, plus the straight.
> >>>
> >>> 5th is a non issue, we don't use it, even at VIR. And it's an OD gear,
> so
> >>> you're not going to get much faster regardless of it's ratio.
> >>>
> >>> As for more general mods, that raises the cost to get into racing as
> well
> >>> as maintenance. There is an IT7 class run in the south that does a lot
> of
> >>> the mods mentioned earlier - that's never been our tradition. It's not
> to
> >>> say things can't change, but there's not a big appetite to make these
> >>> cars
> >>> more expensive, as most people would just go get a Miata at 5k, so it's
> >>> not
> >>> likely to help, but hurt. Plus, if you want to run a modded RX7,
> there's
> >>> always the EP class.
> >>>
> >>> v/r
> >>> Michael J. Root, PMP
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019, 8:00 AM DANNY MATULA via Spec7 <
> >>> spec7 at lists.specrx7.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > One thing to consider is that yes the top speed in that gear maybe a
> >>> little
> >>> > higher but the car may not pull as hard in 3rd gear either. If I
> >>> remember
> >>> > correctly the only time I saw 4th (at summit) was on the front
> stretch
> >>> but
> >>> > it's been 8 years for me so it's a little foggy
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019, 07:54 Alex C via Spec7 <spec7 at lists.specrx7.com
> >
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Hi Guys,
> >>> > > Ive been keeping up with the thoughts on the RX7-Miata gears and
> >>> thought
> >>> > id
> >>> > > weigh in..
> >>> > >
> >>> > > First, - hi again.  Ive been on this list for about 12 years and
> have
> >>> > gone
> >>> > > through around 6 RX7's including a spec 7 that i purchased back in
> >>> 2009
> >>> > or
> >>> > > so.  Economic downturn hit, car got sold and i never drove it, etc.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I just bought Matt Littletons old car from Drew Duke who
> surprisingly
> >>> > lives
> >>> > > about 7 miles from me here in Manassas.  He's prepping Jack Burrows
> >>> old
> >>> > car
> >>> > > and now i'm trying to piece together whats left of Matt' old car to
> >>> see
> >>> > > what I'm dealing with to be ready for next year  So, I dont want to
> >>> speak
> >>> > > for Drew but I guess its safe to say there are two of us trying to
> >>> get
> >>> > > ready for next season.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > So, back to the gears -
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Agree - spec class, etc.  Maybe there is a way to make minor
> changes
> >>> to
> >>> > > offset the gear changes with tire diameter?  or even a custom 5th
> >>> gear
> >>> > only
> >>> > > for the Miata set (I mean, you have to pull the transmissions apart
> >>> > anyway
> >>> > > to do this so one gear isn't a big deal / cost).
> >>> > >
> >>> > > From the side of keeping it a spec series and keeping people in the
> >>> > class;
> >>> > > first, i want to say that I don't want to overstep my bounds here.
> >>> I may
> >>> > > have been on the list for a while but I haven't raced with either
> of
> >>> you
> >>> > in
> >>> > > RX7's although a lot of you I've met / know through other means
> >>> (karting,
> >>> > > Chump etc) with some of them being ex SRX7 guys (Mike Wu, Keith
> >>> Shugarts,
> >>> > > etc).
> >>> > >
> >>> > > That being said, I think one of the things that are giving the
> class
> >>> some
> >>> > > issues is the marketability to the younger crowd.  Most of the
> >>> younger
> >>> > guys
> >>> > > want to do a few more mods, change a few more things, etc. and cant
> >>> do
> >>> > that
> >>> > > because of how the rules are written and how some of the rules
> >>> appear at
> >>> > > first glance to be different between regions (Isnt it southwest
> that
> >>> runs
> >>> > > headers but stock radiators?).  My *personal* take on this would be
> >>> to
> >>> > add
> >>> > > some different things that either A) don't make a huge difference
> >>> (sort
> >>> > of
> >>> > > like the Miata gear argument) or  B) can just be updated a little
> to
> >>> meet
> >>> > > the times especially since there are some different rules among
> >>> different
> >>> > > SRX7 classes that I've seen from different areas of the country.
> >>> Things
> >>> > > that come off the top of my head would be headers, short shifters,
> >>> maybe
> >>> > > even a coilover setup (standard - as close to the spring / shock
> >>> rate we
> >>> > > have now but gives a bit more flexibility) front and rear lip
> >>> spoilers,
> >>> > > etc..  Like I said, I'm totally not an expert and don't want to
> upset
> >>> > > anyone.  I've been trying to dig back through the rules to try to
> get
> >>> > > re-familiarized with both the class and SCCA rules so please dont
> >>> take
> >>> > > offense if this makes me look like a total nut-job.  Just some
> ideas
> >>> I
> >>> > > wanted to throw out there.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Anyway, happen to join into any discussion or help in any way I
> can.
> >>> > > Thanks!
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Alex
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 9:43 PM Michael Root via Spec7 <
> >>> > > spec7 at lists.specrx7.com> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > Well, the point is to move to something with more reliability,
> not
> >>> > > provide
> >>> > > > a "track to track" option depending on which trans ratio is best.
> >>> > > However,
> >>> > > > that's a good point that you make, a clear unintended
> consequence.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > <
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
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> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 6:33 PM cwarmbrust via Spec7 <
> >>> > > > spec7 at lists.specrx7.com>
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > > Michael,
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > Great workup on the gearing comparison. I strongly suspect the
> >>> > > difference
> >>> > > > > or advantage/disadvantage would vary from track to track. Each
> >>> track
> >>> > > has
> >>> > > > > its own personality, and preferred gearing.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > The idea of a spec car is just that, identical cars. Changes in
> >>> gear
> >>> > > > > ratios from track to track is not our thing. Thus, one or the
> >>> other
> >>> > > will
> >>> > > > > tend dominate at our home track.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > Just a thought.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > W
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > Beamed in from an iPhone somewhere in space.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > On Jul 29, 2019, at 19:46, Michael Root via Spec7 <
> >>> > > > spec7 at lists.specrx7.com>
> >>> > > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > The question has been raised in the past about putting Miata
> >>> gears
> >>> > and
> >>> > > > > syncros in our trans since RX7 3rd gears/syncros are getting
> >>> hard to
> >>> > > find
> >>> > > > > (and the ones left are "well used"). We've always endeavored to
> >>> keep
> >>> > > the
> >>> > > > > cost of this class low, and I want to honor that. I also don't
> >>> want
> >>> > to
> >>> > > be
> >>> > > > > swapping transmissions constantly (my last three were iffy from
> >>> the
> >>> > get
> >>> > > > go,
> >>> > > > > and one caused a fire). Miata gears were built to handle a
> little
> >>> > more
> >>> > > > > power, so they should wear better, and we can get new parts
> >>> today,
> >>> > > which
> >>> > > > we
> >>> > > > > can't with 1st gen RX7s. Bret can do the work, cost is still
> TBD.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > There's also a discussion on how much of an advantage will
> Miata
> >>> > gears
> >>> > > > give
> >>> > > > > someone over someone who doesn't have the modification. I've
> >>> > attached a
> >>> > > > > gear ratio chart below if someone wants to do the math (I have
> no
> >>> > clue
> >>> > > > what
> >>> > > > > this actually translates too in the real world). If we do
> decide
> >>> to
> >>> > do
> >>> > > > > this, it will be an off-season rule change this winter, giving
> >>> those
> >>> > of
> >>> > > > us
> >>> > > > > who race on the regular time to get the work done before the
> 2020
> >>> > > season.
> >>> > > > > Apparently it's a minor modification that requires some simple
> >>> > > > machining. I
> >>> > > > > don't know the details myself. According to my google-fu, the
> >>> miata
> >>> > > gears
> >>> > > > > go right in, but one must slightly modify (chop) the input
> shaft.
> >>> > > > > Seriously, google it, there's a ton on doing this modification.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > To me, the big issue will be price. If it's cheap enough, I
> think
> >>> > most
> >>> > > of
> >>> > > > > us would do this for the peace of mind. We can even have a few
> >>> spares
> >>> > > > built
> >>> > > > > in case any new comers show up. People may also think this is a
> >>> bad
> >>> > > idea,
> >>> > > > > and not want to do it. I'm open to all inputs. I'm looking for
> >>> the
> >>> > > option
> >>> > > > > that will keep people in the class longer; I'm not looking to
> run
> >>> > > anyone
> >>> > > > > out.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > Car 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
> >>> > > > > 79-83 RX-7 3.674:1 2.217:1 1.432:1 1:01 .825:1
> >>> > > > > RWD 626 3.214:1 1.818:1 1.296:1 1:01 .858:1
> >>> > > > > 84-85 RX-7 3.622:1 2.186:1 1.419:1 1:01 .807:1 12A
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > .711:1 '84.5-85 13B
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > .758:1 '84-84.5 13B
> >>> > > > > 86-91 NA RX-7 3.475:1 2.002:1 1.366:1 1:01 .691, 86=.711
> >>> > > > > Miata 3.136:1 1.888:1 1.330:1 1:01 .814:1
> >>> > > > > '85+ B2000/2200 3.622:1 2.186:1 1.419:1 1:01 .858:1
> >>> > > > > 99+ Miata 6-speed 3.76:1 2.269:1 1.645:1 1.257:1 1:01 0.843:1
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > --
> >>> > > > > v/r
> >>> > > > > Michael J. Root, PMP
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > <
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
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> >>> > > > >
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> >>> > > > > --
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > .
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > Spec7 mailing list,  http://specrx7.com
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> >>> > > > > --
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >  .
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > --
> >>> > > > v/r
> >>> > > > Michael J. Root, PMP
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > <
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
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> >>> > > > --
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >  .
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --
> >>> > > V/r
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Alex Cumming
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Spec7 mailing list,  http://specrx7.com
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> >>> > >  .
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> >>> >
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> >>> >  .
> >>> >
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>  .
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > v/r
> > Michael J. Root, PMP
> >
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> v/r
> Michael J. Root, PMP
>
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